Directed by Christopher Nolan. Screenplay by Jonathan Nolan and Christopher Nolan. Released by Warner Bros. Pictures.
Note: I’ve avoided discussion of actual plot points in this review in an effort to stay spoiler-free. As I well know, however, spoilers are different things to different people. If you’ve been reading other reviews of the movie in print and online, it’s unlikely that you’ll encounter anything in this review that will surprise you. However, if you’re like me and want to avoid knowing anything about the film until you see it, it’s probably best that you avoid reading this until you have.
One of the strange things about watching The Dark Knight is that so much of it was filmed in Chicago. Christopher Nolan filmed Batman Begins in this city also, but not much of the city is immediately recognizable in that earlier film. In The Dark Knight, though, the city plays a much bigger role, and I recognized locations throughout. Honestly, it was a little distracting at first. It’s tough to believe in a city in desperate peril when you can see places you go to all the time (yes, I know – insert Chicago joke here).
And I’ll be up front about it; this is not a movie without flaws. After a good opening scene, the Nolans decide to tie up a loose end from the first film in a very half-assed way. There’s a trip to Hong Kong that technically fits in the story but feels like it would be more at home in a Justice League movie. And as much as I hate to say it, the filmmaking is occasionally sloppy; more than once I found myself asking questions about what I had just seen and even whether characters were alive or dead.
Yet I’m more than willing to put all that aside, because The Dark Knight is the most thoughtful, suspenseful, and even outright terrifying movie I’ve seen all year. The Nolan brothers up the ante from Batman Begins considerably, not just in terms of action spectacle but thematic development. The film is a landmark accomplishment of its genre, finally moving the comic book movie irrevocably beyond the formula of hero vs. bad guy and into something that asks hard questions about the world we live in with no easy answers to be found.
We begin shortly after Batman Begins leaves off, with Batman teaming with Lieutenant Jim Gordon to clean up Gotham City from years of mob rule. With the mob on the run, new District Attorney Harvey Dent arrives in town, and gradually earns Bruce Wayne’s trust as an honest public servant. Both men are tested, though, by the rise of the Joker.
I was expecting the Joker to be a dark and psychotic character, but I honestly was not prepared to see a character as intensely frightening as this one. Even in this day and age of fashionably psychotic movie villains, I don’t think I’ve encountered one with the total lack of humanity that the Joker embodies. The closest analogy I can come up with is to the sadists in Michael Haneke’s Funny Games (either version); in what I suspect may be a deliberate nod to that film, Ledger’s Joker gives several different explanations – all equally ridiculous – for why he is the way he is.
Given a character like this, the first instinct of many filmmakers would be to exploit him and the audience for cheap spectacle; Haneke made Funny Games for a reason, after all. Nolan, however, has a more serious role for him in mind, and uses the Joker to pose a series of questions about the Batman mythology specifically and western society in general. He introduces an ambivalence about Batman that was absent in the first film. The film places much more emphasis on his vigilante nature and as the film progresses, the question of whether Gotham City would be better off without Batman comes into clear focus, not least to Batman himself. Is Batman a hero to Gotham? What is a hero, anyway?
And for that matter, what is justice? The Joker’s most frightening moments are when he devises schemes that put that question to a very severe test, leaving Batman with no easy answer and makes it difficult for the audience to know who and what to root for. For that matter, Gotham is thrown into such chaos that established society begins to break down. How can a democracy exist when the public can be so easily manipulated by fear? How far can a vigilante go in the name of public safety before he begins to undermine the foundations of the society he fights to protect? “You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain,” says Harvey Dent, in the clearest statement of the film’s point of view. If that sounds ominous and open-ended, well…
All of this unfolds in a surprisingly realistic way. I don’t mean that the movie is literally realistic, but the ethical dilemmas that Batman faces are pretty close to the questions that a Batman would face in the real world. As copycat Batmans spring up around Gotham and the public grows increasingly restless about his presence, he is forced to face his own limits and even his role in the causes of Gotham’s problems. To that end, the Batman of this film is a flawed character, reckless and impulsive, and often giving the Joker the upper hand.
Simply put, my expectations for the movie were as high as for any movie I can remember, and the Nolans have managed to exceed them. Sure, there are some minor flaws, but early as it is (only the first weekend of release) it feels like a turning point in the franchise era of studio filmmaking, taking a big canvas and filling it with ideas beyond those that we are used to seeing. Excessively CGId spectacle will no longer be enough. The same formulas will no longer be enough. The Dark Knight presents a real story with real implications, and it has set a new standard to follow.
My initial thoughts were that I didn’t like it as much as I expected. However, I couldn’t stop thinking about it. I think a second viewing will help me solidify my opinion one way or another.
I’ll be seeing it again. Possibly tomorrow night in IMAX.
It exceeded my expectations. HL’s Joker is, of course, the exclamation point on the character for all time. Done. He has done the Clown Prince of Crime the most justice.
What surprised me, though, was Aaron Eckhart’s Harvey Dent. This is the guy who should be nommed in my opinion. He had a full arc and had to play the full range of personality. Not to downplay or denigrate Heath or his performance, but without an origin story the Joker is “simply” mad/psychotic. It’s chaos and while that entails a bunch, there is no real change in character. He is never sympathetic (unless you believe his own origin stories) and you never expect him to go with the flow. He is always in charge and a few steps ahead so you shouldn’t be surprised when he breaks out of the slammer. You may be enthralled with his method, but you never doubt his capability.
And by the time he gets caught [lamely] by Batman, Dent is the much more interesting/exciting character.
Other minor quibbles:
-The narrow focus of the story. They threw us a bone with Batman nabbing the scarecrow, but I would have liked to see him fight more crime in and around Gotham as a whole
-Gotham scenery. They could have changed up Chicago slightly to make it a little different. I know they destroyed the monorail thing in the last movie, but that gave it a sort of futuristic while still rustic look that was missing this time around.
-Batman’s gnarled voice is occasionally muffled. A few times I had to gloss over what he said and hope it wasn’t important.
It was a stunning film overall and is worth every cent it makes, in my humble opinion.
Joe, I edited your comment slightly because I thought it revealed a pretty important plot point.
EDIT: If you’re reading this thread for the first time, know that spoilers will follow after all. Sorry.
My review here. I don’t disagree too strenuously, other than I didn’t find it all that frightening (intense, maybe) and I don’t think it breaks new ground in the genre.
I think this is the right choice, though, because it thankfully is not a movie *about* the Joker. He’s just a mechanism to bring about the plot, the deus ex machina if you will. While he necessarily gets a lot of screen time, it’s still a movie about Batman. And so we see the Joker as Batman sees him.
And I noticed that the way Batman sees him changes throughout the movie. In early scenes, we see Joker robbing a bank and taking control of the mob. Standard criminal stuff. But after Alfred tells him about how “some men just want to see the world burn,” we don’t get any more of that. We get chaos, anarchy, etc.
The same is true of Dent – we see him through Batman’s eyes. That’s why he gets a fuller character arc and a more sympathetic treatment.
I thought the comments were “spoilers allowed”….my bad!
I agree that this was the RIGHT choice for the Joker, but thinking from an awards standpoint I think Eckhart was given more of a range to act within and did it successfully.
Can you imagine Jack Nicholson or Tommy Lee Jones watching this film? I would have a sinking pit in my stomach….
They are also missing a huge marketing angle – the triumphant return of Anthony Michael Hall!!!
Jackrabbit and I are on near-identical pages here. It’s a good film, bordering great. The first two hours are near-bliss, the final act is a complete mess:
- Everything with Two-Face falls flat. From Dent’s unconvincing transformation to having the characters literally spell out its’ implications/meaning repeatedly: none of it worked for me. While I’m not trying to compare the films overall, I found the character’s fate in Batman Forever to be more touching and inventive.
- The Joker’s social experiment, while completely illogical, seems like a solid concept. Unfortunately, the resulting melodrama seems like something out of a Bruckheimer/Bay picture. It’s the first (and hopefully only time) I’ll feel embarrassed watching a Chris Nolan film.
- As Slim mentioned: the Sonar-assisted hostage rescue is terrible in both concept and execution. I went with seven other people, it was the biggest gripe of the group.
- Biggest issue for me was the lack of emotional connection to the characters. I felt more in the first 30 minutes of Batman Begins than 2.5 hours of TDK. Since we’re keeping this non-spoilery, I won’t say more.
Regardless of what the IMDB says: It’s not the best film ever. It’s not the best superhero film ever. It’s not even the best Batman film of the decade.
I’d probably rate it an 8/10 for now. If you could remove Dent from the final act and keep Holmes: I’d rate it a 9.5/10.
Do you mean Holmes or Gyllenhallenhallenall?
No, I mean Holmes. Maggie G. was the biggest shock of the film, in that she was a complete void.
But who would have thought Tiny Lister would still be in such good shape?
Man is jacked!
This “TDK is #1 of All Time on the IMDB” thing is genuinely depressing me.
I understand that folks get caught up in hype and that it’s all about personal preference, but do they REALLY, truly believe it’s the crowning achievement of the medium?
Well, if I were rating it on IMDb, I’d give it a 10. That doesn’t mean that I think it’s the best movie of all time, but I’d still be contributing to it being listed as #1.
Doesn’t this happen with a lot of hyped releases? I’m sure TDK will fall in ranks on IMDb once the people who didn’t like it rate it also. I think that’s one of the reasons I never fully trust the top 250 imdb anyway.
congrats to the makers of Dark Knight for their record breaking opening weekend… it’s no wonder there’s talk of another one coming out ASAP
I also see a lot of references to Spiderman 2 when comparing TDK to other superhero movies. Other than box office purposes (2nd movie was record breaking at the time) I don’t get it.
X2 was 2x the movie S2 was. If anything people should be comparing B2 (or 6 or 7, depending upon your view of the first batman movies and proper sequels) to X2 in terms of ultimate superhero movie. But even then Nolan has so steeped his films in reality (or just beyond the edge) that mutant powers (either spider bites or rapid healing or phase shifting) seem to be in a separate category.
It’s about personal preferences and general consensus, Joe. Correctly or not (note: it is correct): Spider-Man 2 has been considered the high water mark for the genre.
I enjoyed Spider-Man 2 more than X2 and both more than The Dark Knight. Batman Begins would probably be my second favorite in the genre.
wow…I only saw S2 in theaters once. It was way worse than the first one and only slightly better than the 3rd. If consensus (or James) and I ever met up in a dark alley together, I’d have to say “You’re wrong”
Interestingly enough, the difference between RT ratings for The Dark Knight and Spider-Man 2 is 1% (they are the two highest rated in the genre) so it looks like they’ll be sharing the crown.
What didn’t you like about Spidey 2, btw?
I’ve only seen it once, but I would have to say “most of it.” It didn’t seem that exciting to me. Doc Ock was unimpressively written and the story didn’t grab me. I was expecting X2 and it was simply uninspiring.
I didn’t intend to write a full review here, but I just kept rambling…
Back from our 2nd viewing of TDK. I expected to get a little more out of it this time because sometimes I get more out of the 2nd viewing than the first. But I feel like I saw the movie in exactly the same way the 2nd time. The only exception was noticing more Chicago landmarks.
With that, I have to say that I like Batman Begins much much better. While I think filming in Chicago was a beautiful thing to do (until my parents find out I live in Gotham City), it made the film too realistic. It’s as if too much was filmed during the daytime to show off Chicago’s rich architecture and was a little distracting. I think Gotham still needs to be a little darker.
Is it wrong of me to want to hear the Joker laugh a little more? Heath was incredibly creepy and did a superb job in transforming into this nightmare of a character. I thought his “ace in the hole” speech was maybe a little too out of character, though.
In regards to Rachel, I wanted to like Maggie G, but I actually liked Katie better. Maggie is just too meek for an assistant DA who isn’t supposed to take shit from anyone (like her Stranger Than Fiction character). Unless falling in love with Harvey Dent changed her. Which brings me to question, are they allowed to date considering they work together? I would think in real life that would be a big no-no.
I agree with what’s been said about Bale’s Batman voice. It’s a bit raspy and can be hard to hear at times. I actually wanted to see more of Bruce Wayne. But that may be a Bale thing for me. I would love to see a better love interest in the next one.
I think X2 and TDK are similar creatures. The Spidey films belong in a different subcategory of comic book films to me. They’re more straight comic book interpretations, whereas the Singer and Nolan films were more about taking comic book themes and characters and putting them in the real world (or some rough approximation of it, anyway).
I do think that S2 was perhaps the best of its kind, although I also like the Donner Superman in this subcategory also.
Anyway, I saw TDK again tonight, and I have some further observations:
– James, I didn’t hate the ferry scene like you did, but I can see what you mean when you say it’s subpar. Thinking about it, I think the big problem isn’t the scene itself – it’s that the actors are just bad.
This strikes me as a common problem in group scenes like this. All of the sudden, at a key point of the movie, we have to deal with people we’ve never seen before … glorified extras. It’s jarring even under the best of circumstances, and when the actors aren’t up to the task, it’s difficult for the scene to work.
In this case, I’d single out the whiny civilian guy who takes the detonator. He’s brutally bad. The whiny civilian woman isn’t much better, but she only has one or two lines. Interestingly, I thought the convict guy was fine and didn’t have a problem with that side of the scene at all.
Also, I would have done that scene without a score. Music in a scene like that is always going to heighten the drama – which is the point, obviously – but it also underscores the inadequacy of the actors.
– I don’t have a problem with the sonar hostage rescue at all. In fact, I think it’s a pretty clever execution, having Fox at the other end to explain what’s going on. I didn’t have difficulty following the action the first time, and the second time I got to thinking that it’s close to brilliant.
– There are still three scenes that strike me as sloppy. The first is the Dent fundraiser that the Joker crashes. I was with it up until Batman jumps out the window after Rachel … but then I wonder, what did the Joker do? Did he shrug his shoulders and leave? Did he kill a few partygoers on his way out, or politely say goodnight, knowing that Batman had ferried Dent away and his presence there was now pointless? This scene wasn’t over!
The second is when the Eric Roberts character confronts Gordon at the hospital, and tells him he knows where Joker will be. Cut to the ship, and Gordon telling the cops to seal off all escape routes. Then the next we see Gordon he’s in his office, telling the cops to evacuate the hospitals. Hello? What happened in between there?
The third is inside the ship, when we see Lau with Joker on the pile of money. Joker slides down … and we never see Lau again. Presumably he dies in the fire, but why not show him again? He had been a somewhat important character up until that point, but he’s completely forgotten.
– I didn’t like Two-Face’s makeup, but I did like his storyline except that I think it could have made up a whole movie of its own. That he didn’t make it, though, makes me think that Joker won’t be back in the third movie, since his end also signified the end of the Joker’s story. With Dent’s reputation living on, the Joker was defeated.
– I don’t have a problem with Gyllenhaal, I thought she was just fine. It’s just that Rachel is a minor character, necessarily made so when she rejected Wayne at the end of the first. She’s nothing but a satellite in Wayne’s world (ha, ha).
Yeah, the Top 250 has lost a lot of credibility imo over the past couple of years. A current mainstream release has to have a good/very good response and you can rest assured that it will be in the Top 250 at some stage and may not even drop out of it afterwards. Obviously there are issues with people voting multiple times for a film and other factors but I would’ve thought the IMDB people would’ve done more to counter that.
Joe, just to show there’s different strokes for different folks, I liked Spidey-2 a hell of a lot, and I’m meh on all of the X-man films. I saw X2 only once, and I can’t tell you much about it now. Didn’t make much of an impression.
Another sequence in Dark Knight bothered me. SLIGHT SPOILER: the scene in which the Joker escapes from the interrogation room. Was there a deleted scene there, or are we just supposed to assume he’s so cagey that he easily disarm the detective watching him? Seemed abrupt to me. For a very long movie, some of it went much too quickly.
Interesting statement in the EW review, that the Harvey Dent transformation wasn’t really needed in the film, would have been better just to have the Joker as villain. Not sure I fully agree, but it’s an idea to roll around in the head.
JS – in response to the SLIGHT SPOILER…I thought the same thing the 1st time. But the 2nd time I noticed he had a sharp piece of glass (from where Batman broke the window) that he was holding against the detective’s throat.
I know there’s different strokes. I was just giving mine. Critics sometimes just write things as if *everyone* thinks a certain way when it’s often different…
I wonder what took this headline so long to show up…
http://www.imdb.com/news/ns0000003/#ni0265195
It made $24.5 million yesterday? That’s good enough to win some entire weekends outright! My two “local” IMAX screens are always sold out so I may not get the big screen experience here. Definitely seeing it again tonight, though.
Saw it again last night. Theater was 100% PACKED again. On a Tuesday night?!?!
This thing will make three hundo by week’s end. A lock to pass 400 but will it crest 500?
All good points and much of it does fall on the actors. Beyond execution:
1) Logistically how did the Joker get the bombs on-board? Weren’t the police on high alert for attacks? I’ve got to imagine an entire deck filled with explosives would probably be noticed by the crew before departure.
2) Despite the Joker’s hacking of the PA system, I find it hard to believe that the ferry personnel would simply decide to debate things with civilians. It would have been more realistic (and easier) to have the Joker contact the Captains directly. Instead of dozens of extras, you could have had two small crews (led by solid character actors) going through the same moral dilemma.
3) Where were the authorities? The bomb squad? From the Joker’s POV, there weren’t even police boats circling the ships. Why didn’t the ships just evacuate?
Agreed. The whole sequence is a very powerful concept, the flaw just rests with the execution. I do love the shot where the Joker realizes he’s failed (I actually got chills from the score)
I found it a little ADD for my tastes. Oddly, I think it might play better on the small screen.
Agreed.
That really bothered me the second time. The even stranger thing is that the error could be corrected by removing those ten seconds (which add absolutely nothing further to the scene) with Roberts.
An even better question: what was Roberts doing at the hospital anyway? How did he know Gordon would be there? Did he wander onto the wrong set and Oldman just decided to ad-lib?
To end on a positive note: the Dent/Police Convoy sequence was completely exhilarating. Probably one of the best of its kind this decade.
Yes, absolutely. And just as good the second time around. Well conceived, well acted, well shot, vital to the story, and makes sense from the standpoint of each character involved.
And, it must be noted, not in any way reliant on CGI.
You know, this doesn’t bother me. I like that the Joker seems all powerful and even at times omnipresent. It works better that way from a thematic standpoint IMO.
I do agree that the Joker fundraiser-crashing needed more of a resolution, but later on he tells Batman “I really thought you were Dent the way you threw yourself after her” so it can be inferred that he assumed Dent had leapt out the window and was either dead or disappeared 90 stories below. Either way, his work was done at the party.
Eric Roberts in the hospital…. I presume he was there having his legs bandaged up and getting fitted for his cane. He probably heard Dent was in the building and wanted to pay him a little visit. It ends with him telling Gordon that he knows where the Joker will be, then cuts to where the Joker is. It doesn’t go right to Gordon barking out orders, so rather than have him tell us where he is, it is shown. But yes, there could have been more exposition I guess. Gordon chooses to evacuate the hospitals because one of his guys is watching the TV when the Joker calls in to Anthony Michael Hall’s show and puts a price on Reese’s head
Lau’s burning was definitely mishandled. How did the Joker get the money? Lau had it on a dump truck and then….???
I have been cleaning out my garage this week and stumbled upon a 3-part mini series of comics that came in boxes of BATMAN cereal (released around the time of the 1989 film). They’re called “The Untold Legend of Batman” and were originally printed in 1980. Anyway, one of the pages (click here) tells one of the origins of Two-Face. What interested me most was the name of the mob boss that Batman and Dent were trying to put away: Moroni. Nice attention to detail! (of course the rest of the story strays, but all the origin stories have differed throughout the years)
I see now why you all went for seconds.
It’s a thrilling, towering film, with absolutely fantastic things in it (I can not find words for Ledger here), but it’s a film so jam-packed with stuff that it at times threatens to derail itself. Two and a half hours becomes both too much and not enough for the film to tell its story. I never thought I’d say this of a Nolan brothers film, but the structure is the main thing at fault here. You don’t get enough setup on why Dent becomes the way he does, he goes from way to the other with barely any explanation at all, while the ferries dilemma get too much exposure.
But some of the things – that “silent” car chase, the bank robbery, the Joker’s escape from the holding cells – are scenes that I’ll enjoy for a long time to come.
I’ll see it again in cinemas, next week probably. Need some more time to digest.
As of right now, how would you rank it against Begins?
The same? I know that’s a cop out, but there’s moments of genius in it, something I can’t really say about Batman Begins, but it doesn’t have the same even quality and structure. Plus right now it’s a bit hard to compare them. Actually, the moments of genius make me think I might like it more in hindsight.
I thought this at first, but the 2nd time I realized that Dent doesn’t just go to the Joker’s side. He goes to a 3rd side which is becoming his own vigilante. He has always been supportive of those people as long as they did what he perceived to be “good.” He makes it real simple on himself by using the coin. He would have killed the Joker if it came up on the burned side.
His anger was always there with Gordon’s MCU. When Dent was at IA, he knew there were a ton of dirty cops on Gordon’s watch. They were on Maroni’s payroll and Gordon knew it as well. After seeing how neutered and corrupt it made things Dent struck out on his own. THe Joker just gave him a push (as he said while hanging upside down).
It’s enough for me
I want to get one thing straight: Dent is dead, correct? I thought this was pretty clear but I’ve seen more than one speculation about his role in the third movie. Do people just not pay attention, or did I misinterpret the ending?
I took it that he is dead. Perhaps those people are subscribing to the tendency of comic book characters to have a unique ability to cheat death. I once knew a guy who wrote for Marvel Comics, and he said they used to say around there, “No one stays dead, except Uncle Ben.”
See, I didn’t think he was dead. I just assumed they did the same thing with Dent that they did with Gordon (fake funeral) and were going to let [two-face] go on his way.
EDIT: Stupid internet crapped out. I think I’ve since changed my mind and think he might actually be dead, but you never really know.
But Gordon didn’t have a funeral, only the previous police commissioner. And I think they are saying Dent is dead. At least that’s what Nolan appears to be saying. But with comic book characters all bets are off. So while the Nolans probably won’t bring him back, that doesn’t mean no one else who picks up the mantle will see it the same way
I interpreted it as him being dead, too. Bit hard to interpret when they were just standing there chatting over his body. Dead or just knocked out? Left a bit up in the air, for the filmmakers benefit.
Yeah, wonder who they’ll get to direct the ones after Nolan is done. Doubt that Bale or many of the cast will return without him at the helm. Probably have to reinvent the character all over again.
Right – Gordon was shot at the commissioner’s funeral. I was getting mixed up.
Going to be seeing the film again tomorrow. Looking forward to it. Actually warming up to the film more and more, despite its imperfections. Feel like I can discuss it better after absorbing it some more.
Didn’t notice until the second time that Nicky Katt was playing the guy in the police van with Gordon during the car chase.
Oh, man…I had rendered all these really pithy responses to various points brought up here on this review, and my computer went nuts and I lost it all and I don’t feel like going through it again.
I just wanted Brian to know I finally got around to reading all things on the Dark Knight since I finally saw it.
Good review, man, enjoyed the points you made.
Dent is dead. Nolan confirms by way of Eckhart.
Watched it for the third time this past weekend and I think the film’s flaws only got worse on DVD/Blu-Ray.
The Dent stuff is just so tacked-on (yet completely intrusive) and unpleasant to watch that it ruined the first 2/3rds as I sat there dreading it.
I didn’t go and see TDK when released as I wasn’t particularly interested in it.
But I happened to catch a portion of it on pay-TV a little while back and I was impressed enough to see more of it and recently I watched all of it. And, even as someone who’s not a fan of modern comic book movies, it can’t be denied it was a very well-made film and I can see why so many people loved it (especially those who love this type of film).
(spoilers ahead)
Can only agree with the praise of Ledger’s performance. In a way it’s an easy role to play as it’s so showy but he hit the bullseye. It was all the little details of his performance that most impressed; for example, the way he says the line “I’m a man of word” just as he’s about to kill the fake Batman stays in the memory.
As for the plot, while it probably overstuffed itself a bit and had to skate over some plot issues and events, it was still for the most part very well handled. Even at 152 minutes, there wasn’t a scene in the film that I found mildly tedious, let alone boring.
With regards to the early ‘Scarecrow’ scene that others on here have said was badly handled, my impression was that it was deliberately designed to be chaotic and messy because of the fact that there were multiple Batmans on the scene and perhaps sending the message of the chaos – not order – that Batman was bringing onto the scene.
There were some flaws in the film. People on here have been saying how Dent’s turn into Two-Face was unconvincing and badly handled; I think what was badly handled was Bruce Wayne’s conviction that he’s the man to turn around the city. At the start he clearly has doubts about him but they’re all tamed because of what appears to be a 3-4 minute conversation with him at a dinner? Considering how key this was to the plot projection of the movie, this was a significant weakness imo.
Also, agree with what JS said on his blog about Alfred, who I found tiresome in his constantly trite moralising and analysis. Probably the first time I’ve been irritated by Caine’s presence in a film.
What about the scene in the car where Eric Roberts is confronted by Two-Face? Are we supposed to believe that Two-Face survived such a major crash relatively unscatched just because he had his seatbelt on? It wasn’t the only scene that seemed rather dubious in this aspect.
While it had these flaws it was still a fine film overall.
Watched this again tonight and I’ve enjoyed re-reading this thread. Some current reactions:
1) Like Nick said way back when, there are moments in this movie that top anything in Batman Begins. The moment after eveything’s gone to shit – Dent is disfigured, Rachel is dead, Joker’s escaped, and in general everything is at its lowest point – and Joker’s riding in the cop car, head out the window, without a care in the world … that’s a brilliant moment.
2) In general, I think Joker was extremely well-conceived as a character. It’s hard not to see him as an allegory about terrorism, and his character I think really represents how people view that threat. Like I said upthread, he’s everywhere at once, a constant menace, with no logic dictating his motives or even capabilities.
Essentially, Ledger and the Nolans have taken the most deep-seeded, irrational fears the public has and dramatized them. That’s nothing really new, I guess, since movie villians are often seemingly omnipotent in various ways, but the key thing about Joker is that he doesn’t have some master plan, he just “wants to watch the world burn”, as Alfred says. Again, the way that we Americans, at least, see terrorists are as nihilistic, destabilizing forces, which is what Joker is. I guess Ra’s al Ghul and Scarecrow were sort of the same, but Joker really takes it a step further. And the terrible trials that he dreams up are pretty well thought out, too – the strongest aspect of this movie is the way it really puts the moral foundation of the Batman character to the test.
3) On the whole, I think the movie is full of terrific ideas, but it’s really inelegant in a lot of places. That’s not a word I’d apply to any other Nolan movie.
4) I would have cut most of the scenes on the ferry. I think the setup is great, but I don’t think we needed to see anything after the point where Joker makes his announcement over the PA system. Let the audience find out what happens when Joker and Batman do – it would have rewarded Batman’s faith in the people, and I think the audience would have pretty much filled in the blanks on their own.
5) I’d have also cut the subplot with Reese and his blackmail scheme. Just cut his whole character clean out of the film. Doesn’t need to be there, the payoff is weak, Joker’s plot against him is redundant, it’s just extra runtime in a long movie.
6) Good lord, is the acting by all the extras bad in this movie. I talked about the actors on the ferry earlier in the thread, but as Jeanine pointed out tonight, the actors in Dent’s press conference (where he revealed himself as Batman) are just as bad.
7) All of the mob actors suck, too. Eric Roberts, Michael Jai White, the Eastern European guy … they’re all awful.
8) I don’t even like Eckhart, really, and I think he’s a big reason why the Two Face storyline doesn’t really take hold. But then I’ve never been a huge fan of the guy. And I have no idea why I said back then that Gyllenhaal was OK – she really brings the movie down.
9) Jeanine and Joe referenced this way back upthread, but there’s a real lack of continuity between the Gotham of Batman Begins (a dark, dirty, forbidding place) and the Gotham of The Dark Knight (the bright gleaming Chicago I so easily recognize). I imagine it’ll be a lot different in the new one, too, as the action shifts to Pittsburgh.
10) Batman beating up a bunch of thugs in a nightclub is just lame. Not exactly the invisible ghost that Ra’s al Ghul trained in the first movie.
11) After the bulky final scene with Two Face, the ending is actually really great, and it sets up the third one perfectly. So now I’m excited to see The Dark Knight Rises all over again.
God, did the secondary characters suck. I thought it was just nit-picky, but bringing up the press conference again, that cop that yells is really bad.
Gyllenhaal is bad, for sure, but I think she commands the screen great, and her reading of the note in the final moments is heartbreaking. I just think she didn’t come across well on camera. And that’s too bad.
I didn’t agree before, but yes, take out the things on the ferry.
Yeah, that blackmail nonsense…I understand why it had to be in there, I mean, someone would have to notice what was happening in this company at some time, but I would rather have had him silenced (better payoff) than simply
‘talked out of it’. Show us the price Batman pays morally to keep his secret. This felt like the ‘I’m gonna jump into Niagra Falls so Lois doesn’t figure out my secret’ trap that Superman fell into.
The nightclub scene was awesome.
So weird how I said nearly exactly the same things after seeing TDK again last night that I said 4 years ago. And except for the Joker, I really do like Batman Begins much better.